Curse

amaretto creme · May 29, 2010, 04:07 AM // 04:07

Defend all you like, but I can tell you right now, you openly admitted to being a botter (especially that you were using a bot to benefit you in game with valued items), even if it was for less than 5 minutes. You will not be unbanned. It doesn't matter the time frame. It matters the fact that you had the program installed and running, and that is what they look at. Not what you DO on it. I honestly don't think you're understanding what people are trying to tell you. IT doesn't matter how long/what you did on it! It matters that you used it! End of story! Once again, don't fall victim to temptation of greater wealth again. Especially in a video game that you apparently like playing a lot. You only have yourself to blame for this, and by your responses it seems like you already know that, so why can't you ACCEPT it?

Sir Cusfreak · May 29, 2010, 04:08 AM // 04:08

Quote:

Once again,the problem you are poiting out is not actually boting,but its effect.

You oppose to what I did,yet I walked around a town. Didn't affect anyone,hence (according to your idea) I should not be banned,yet you say I should be banned.

And once again,botter or not,the responses are not apropiate.

I never said anything like 'if it didnt affect anyone its ok' - thats not how I feel. I support, 100%, a permaban for the drunkbot as much as I do the 'ruptbot and farmbots.

You downloaded and installed it. you may not have EVER used it...but that sounds hinkey. Maybe its true, maybe not. But if it is, then you need to accept the fact that you are a victim of your own incredibly bad judgment.

But I personally dont think it's ok, I dont think you had good intentions when you did it, and if you chickened out between downloading, installing and using it, then I'm glad you had a change of heart. *IF* that's true, and I won't lie, I have my doubts, but if so, then I feel like youre on the extreme end of the spectrum, but I still support the decision to keep EVERY altered file OUT with no exceptions whatsoever.

Thems the breaks. Dont install bots on games you like, its easy to avoid, and it's common sense.

Erys Vasburg · May 29, 2010, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Again, I would like to reiterate to everyone posting that this is not about automated responses being used to handle this situation. This is about automated responses being used to completely shut out anyone who tries to get support on this matter, after they have been directed to seek support by employees of ArenaNet and NCSoft. There is a distinct difference between using automated replies to get more information from a ticket holder and using automated replies to tell ticket holders to bugger off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perkunas

If you are sure you are innocent, keep trying.

Please review the following quote, taken from the end of the fourth automated response being sent to all users emailing support regarding these bans:

Quote:

Subsequent communication about this matter will be closed without response.

For those that were banned, in err or otherwise, there are no more tries. I imagine phone calls will be met with a recording of some sort stating much the same as the ticket responses. I'm quite glad I'm not in the position of needing to find out about that one personally.

amaretto creme · May 29, 2010, 04:17 AM // 04:17

Let me quote myself...

Quote:

Originally Posted by amaretto creme

And also, they say that so those that KNOW they're guilty of botting won't attempt to respond anymore after it. Those that are not guilty will still probably try if they care enough to, because they probably have a brain and understand that support is swamped right now.

Wording like that has always been a scare tactic to stop those that aren't innocent from attempting anything further, and the longer it takes for those people to shut up, the longer it will take for those who really are innocent to get their requests heard and dealt with.

Davros Uitar · May 29, 2010, 04:18 AM // 04:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schnellburg

What is unfair is that they say all 3rd party programs are against the Eula, but then go back and say some are. There shouldn't be any grey area at all. Either they are all against the Eula or they all are not.

You have your disctinction provided by Anet. If the program plays the game for you and gives you material advantage it will get a ban. You are so wrong with your statement above, and the sheep who quoted you with a QFT can't see that either.

I Rogue Syndicate I · May 29, 2010, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feathermoore Rep

why? they've already said that they won't answer how they found out the people were hacking.

Everyone of the email/question threads have been like I am banned, but I didn't use any programs, why am i banned.

They obviously don't won't to discuss the details so they can prevent workarounds from happening for as long as possible.

They have proof, told us they had the proof, and told us why they can't share it. They've also told us why the people were banned (in basic form) and have warned about third-party programs, and have stated again their stance on third-party programs. It just no tolerance for the use of the hacks.

So i think the auto-replies are appropriate. I'm sure if you started asking the right questions, you get information related to your case, just not the exact evidence. Time, date, IP all that information would be the most useful to those claiming, "But i didn't bot i swear!" Maybe even slightly more usefull than how they caught you if your really innocent.

I'm assuming this isn't directed at me specifically but in case it is.. I have not been banned and have no reason to be banned as I have not broken any rules... I'm just hear voicing my opinion on how I think this whole situation was handled poorly from a business stand point... especially from a customer service/support stand point.

I also have a lot of empathy for the innocent gamers who have been swept up in this mess and are now being run through loops because it is being handled poorly...

I'm not here for any other reason than that... I have not said one time that botters should not be banned... I just think it could have been done a better more proactive way... from the beginning...

shoyon456 · May 29, 2010, 04:32 AM // 04:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erys Vasburg

They should not be identical, because each case is different.

Actually a lot of these cases boil down to two things: match manipulation and botting. If you did either, whether you remember or not, you deserve the same answer as everyone else who did the same. You're not special.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erys Vasburg

(for example, it is hardly fair to give these responses to someone asking about their account possibly being compromised, but that is exactly what has happened in at least one case),

Nice, only when they actually ban the accounts for botting is when people decide to come forth and say their account was compromised. Seems a little too convenient to me.

Again, I'm sure innocent people got caught in it. But just because a guildie/friend swears he never did anything illicit, doesn't mean he didn't. Hell, they probably don't even know that botting and such was bannable, which is why they claim innocence. That too is their fault, its their responsibility to read the EULA.

We don't know the timeframe Anet swept, but it was obviously a VERY large one. This is good because it means punishment is retroactive and finally people are being dealt what they deserve. It's bad because people probably didn't even remember when they did what they did, and it was probably so insignificant to them that it slipped their minds.

Then we have the people who even admit to botting, but then say "oh hey, I only did it for 5 mins compared to this lifelong botter." Rationalizing isn't going to work now, you guys broke the EULA, you pay the price. Anet hath no mercy.

jazilla · May 29, 2010, 05:28 AM // 05:28

It's just like prison. Everyone there was framed too. The comedy of it all is the number of people that claim innocence. ANET didn't just go after people wily nilly.

Ka Tet · May 29, 2010, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

From a support standpoint yes, but i think it was done to send a deliberate VERY public message; Don't break the rules! From that aspect, it was spot on! Would-be cheaters are now certain of what happens,and i think that was the point really!

It was done to make a big flashy show of it and attempt to regain the love of the community.

cormac ap dunn · May 29, 2010, 05:56 AM // 05:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by tha walkin dude

It was done to make a big flashy show of it and attempt to regain the love of the community.

you don't think it did both? sure it was a spectacle and for what its worth, a rather original way to ban someone. and why not? it added a fun aspect to an otherwise grim task.

Ka Tet · May 29, 2010, 06:45 AM // 06:45

After looking at quite a few of these threads, there's a number of hardliners who could really learn a lot from taking an unrighteous ban. There are a lot of posters who would do well to read the crucible, then do some reading on Joseph McCarthy.

StormX · May 29, 2010, 06:48 AM // 06:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarion Silverarrow

But the careless automated response sure does.

Its OFF"

Whether you boted,whether you boted but think you are innocent,whether you didn't do anything,etc.

If they are going to do that,then just add it in the window thingy were you are banned

"Don't contact us even if you are truly innocent. We have no time for you,to busy on GW2. Bye"

And as towhat the others are saying "Why waste gw2 resources on this?"....is it fair that if I botted on 2005 and got banned on 2005 I get attention from A-net,but if I got banned on 2010,nothing?

This coming from the guy everyone hated because he made an A-net love thread.

I still don't hate them,just don't like them as much.

What I don't understand is WHY the hell you continue going on and on as though you are completely innocent when you are not? You admitted to d/ling and running what...at least 2 bots, depending on whichever version of your story you happen to be telling. That's enough grounds for a ban.

It's a slippery slope, first you say you botted for 5 minutes so you should be unbanned. What next? I'm sure the person who botted for 30 minutes, one hour, 2 hrs and so on wants to be unbanned too. Anet is not going to check whether you botted for xxx minutes or xxx months, anyone who downloaded the bot is guilty by definition. End of story. So PLEASE just STOP. I suggest you learn your lesson and move on, but you're probably too obtuse to realize that, sad case.

If there are people who are genuinely innocent they should and must be unbanned, but it's hard to tell them from the masses of real offenders who are telling the same tale. If you really are that insistent then take it up with anet, but then you'd just be wasting everyone's time and resources which could be better spent helping those who were unjustly banned.

dancing gnome · May 29, 2010, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

From a support standpoint yes, but i think it was done to send a deliberate VERY public message; Don't break the rules! From that aspect, it was spot on! Would-be cheaters are now certain of what happens,and i think that was the point really!

I think more cheaters were created because they waited so long.

shoyon456 · May 29, 2010, 07:17 AM // 07:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by tha walkin dude

After looking at quite a few of these threads, there's a number of hardliners who could really learn a lot from taking an unrighteous ban. There are a lot of posters who would do well to read the crucible, then do some reading on Joseph McCarthy.

I don't think Anet is at all behaving like Abigail. Anet is more like a vengeful ex wife than a jealous teenage girl.

Anet didn't just start banning people for the hell of it. A lot of people on the forums here have even admitted they did bot. Others probably downloaded something unknowingly with an unoriginal texmod/other mod. Id say a good 95% of the people (see people not accounts) are guilty at worst. And unlike McCarthy, Anet has game records that can be rechecked. No you can't see them, because it would give botters a heads up, but they do exist.

cormac ap dunn · May 29, 2010, 07:19 AM // 07:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancing gnome

I think more cheaters were created because they waited so long.

so again personal responsibility has nothing to do with this? sure why not, thats a good reason for any act of wrongdoing... on topic since most of the common trolling seems to be of a philosophical nature... the phone in question i had earlier, anyone tried that method? any responses?

Nerel · May 29, 2010, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancing gnome

I think more cheaters were created because they waited so long.

The rules about botting were there from the start, no matter how lax you think Anet/NCsoft was in enforcing them you are still choosing to violate the rules with full knowledge of the consequences should they take action.

In short, if you CHOSE to bot you're a cheat by your own choosing, nobody made you cheat.

I'm not a murderer either, but if there aren't any cops around I guess I could kill people and claim that the police made me do it

Grow a spine, get some integrity and stop blaming other people.

Move Down · May 29, 2010, 07:32 AM // 07:32

I had all the same responses from support too last couple of months about my ban.
They really dont care that some innocent people get banned too.
Unbanning those will only proof they suck.

cormac ap dunn · May 29, 2010, 07:47 AM // 07:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Move Down

I had all the same responses from support too last couple of months about my ban.
They really dont care that some innocent people get banned too.
Unbanning those will only proof they suck.

probably best if you not jump on the bandwagon of the wrongly accused

I am certain that if we give this longer then this weekend for some resolution, perhaps support can catch up, not sure how much more we can expand on this topic, as everything relevant has been touched on, and only time will tell.

Nerel · May 29, 2010, 08:10 AM // 08:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Move Down

I had all the same responses from support too last couple of months about my ban.
They really dont care that some innocent people get banned too.
Unbanning those will only proof they suck.

I was permabanned ages ago, I was caught up in a bot sweep and banned as a botter...

Fortunately for me, I had never used a bot... I contacted support, told them that they were mistaken as I had NEVER used a bot or anything of the type... they said they'd go over the server logs and check it out for me. I was unbanned by the polite and helpful support staff in no time.

I have first hand experience that they DO care about innocent people mistakenly caught up in these bot sweeps.

Gill Halendt · May 29, 2010, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerel

I have first hand experience that they DO care about innocent people mistakenly caught up in these bot sweeps.

This.

Just, people, PLEASE don't expect a swift solution in a matter of a few hours. There's probably thousand of people like you appealing for the same reason and Support is likely flooded.

Automated responses and some delay are perfectly reasonable to me. Just bear with it and keep trying if you really feel unjusticed, they'll get there eventually.